Majin Dan wrote:
If altruism exists, you aren't necessarily taking the action for either.
If? Where is the expectation of any gratification in the instant one decides to go into a raging river or house fire to rescue someone?
Altruism: reality or myth?
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 vinny the hack |
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Posts: 1573 (04/08/08 11:36 AM) Administrunktorbot |
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on. --Dean Martin
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Majin Dan |
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Posts: 2026 (04/08/08 01:16 PM) fnord
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I was attempting to play devil's advocate: 'if your silly little idea is right...' (look at me combining this with the insults thread
 )
Prepare for
disappointment!
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sammy8 |
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Posts: 197 (04/08/08 03:40 PM) |
If? Where is the expectation of any gratification in the instant one decides to go into a raging river or house fire to rescue someone? I agree with this and would go so far to say that impulsive actions are probably the only truly selfless acts since you may indeed be acting in a way that not only does not help you, but that you may regret upon reflection. If given time to reflect, you probably wouldn't do it, so split-second decisions based on emotion are probably the only time someone helps one person to no benefit to himself. |
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Dan Rowden |
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Posts: 52 (04/08/08 06:15 PM) |
There's something about that idea that I frankly find, rubbish. Oh, I know, it's the notion that the spontaneous act of expressing one's values
and concerns, rather than a reflective one, somehow negates such an act being an expression of the self (and its values and concerns). It doesn't.
"Altruism" is not merely a myth, it is an incoherent, nonsense term that ought br struck from the language altogether. Life will be no different as
a consequence; it will simply mean one less piece of bullshit.
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vinny the hack |
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Posts: 1583 (04/08/08 07:50 PM) Administrunktorbot |
And you were doing so well until now.
You haven't explained how the act in question is anything other than altruistic.
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on. --Dean Martin
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Dan Rowden |
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Posts: 53 (04/09/08 02:32 AM) |
And you have given "altruism" no more definitive a meaning that a mindless act that happens to benefit
someone. Are we to therefore encourage mindless acts on the basis that a certain percentage of same may result in beneficial outcomes? And your retorts
don't really touch upon my point, which is that whether you instinctively (unconsciously) or reflectively think an action is appropriate, you are still
enacting your values and concerns, your will to power - and having such
psychological forces sublimated thereby.
Altruism is a nonsense term. My main point is that it doesn't matter that it is. Things will be what they are and have whatever benefit they accrue without granting them a nonsense label. |
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vinny the hack |
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Posts: 1590 (04/09/08 03:27 AM) Administrunktorbot |
Dan Rowden wrote:The question was whether true altruism exists or not. Based on the meaning the dictionary and others here have ascribed to it, sammy's and my examples fit even the strictest definitions. Don't shoot the messenger. Should we encourage such acts? There doesn't seem to be a need. Such acts happen quite a bit spontaneously. But we should encourage altruism in it's more loose sense. You seem to be bothered quite a bit by labels. Currently, we have no way to communicate other than with words, many of which are labels. If you don't like the word "altruism", find another word or make one up. But either way, it won't change the fact that altruism, however most people define it, does, indeed, exist.
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on. --Dean Martin
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Muthaiga |
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Posts: 4710 (10/04/08 03:44 AM) effete slob |
Re. the original question...
Does it matter? That sounds glib but it isn't. It doesn't matter, does it? |
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vinny the hack |
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Posts: 1757 (10/05/08 12:46 AM) Administrunktorbot |
It does if you happen to be a lion with a thorn in your paw. And the truth is, we all have a thorn in our paw...er, um foot.
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Muthaiga |
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Posts: 4715 (10/05/08 04:10 AM) effete slob |
I just meant that the motivation to be kind doesn't matter as long as we are kind.
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vinny the hack |
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Posts: 1765 (10/05/08 02:06 PM) Administrunktorbot |
As long as we are what? Long?
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Robert Larkin |
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Posts: 3432 (10/06/08 12:35 AM) sui generis |
Kind? Kind of who?
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Robert Larkin |
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Posts: 3433 (10/06/08 12:37 AM) sui generis |
Whom?
Lost again, didn't I? Don't tell Zhuangzi. |
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Muthaiga |
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Posts: 4727 (10/08/08 10:17 AM) effete slob |
He knows.
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Robbydharma |
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Posts: 43 (10/08/08 03:10 PM) No Holiness |
Based on Zhuangzi's Own Special Brand of Our Snakeoil Is Best, And Which Was The First Ad We Saw, Sarah Palin Was Asshole of the Decade and never mind
she's an ugly bitch with the brainpower of less than you ...
Ah, Zhuangzi know women, too. |
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Muthaiga |
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Posts: 4740 (10/15/08 10:32 AM) effete slob |
You people are unkind. I despise you. Unkindly so.
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